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#scientificmethod

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TL;DR: I think a specific kind of "backward" reasoning, common in conservative religious traditions in the US, is one of the things driving the current crisis.

Long version:.......

First, my experience is with the LDS church, which has spent a few decades trying to be Evangelical enough to be buddies with the actual Evangelicals, and my experiences so far suggest that LDS church members have a lot in common with Evangelical Christians at this point in time, in regards to the issues in this long-ass post.

I was #LDS (i.e., #Mormon) for the first mumblenumbermumble decades of my life. I was taught--expicitly, not by the also-ubiquitous methods of "read-between-the-lines", "pay attention to consequences instead of words," etc.--that the right and proper way to #reason about all things religious was thus:

  1. Find out what is true
  2. Use all resources after that to support, justify, explain, and believe that truth

The first point is a problem, of course, because it comes before any external evidence. There is #evidence of a kind, but it is 100% subjective: the results of your #spiritual promptings or feelings or inspiration. You get these by praying really hard, thinking the right thoughts, etc. Thinking "negative" thoughts (often any kind of skepticism or doubt is included in this category) will drive the Holy Spirit away and he won't be able to tell you how true all the stuff is.

There are many people--and I truly believe they are almost all sincere and well-meaning--to help you navigate this difficult process. This means to help you come to the right conclusions (i.e., that Jesus is God and died for our sins, that Joseph Smith was His prophet, that the LDS church is the only true #church etc.). Coming to the "wrong" conclusions means you aren't doing it right, hard enough, humbly enough, etc. so you will keep at it, encouraged by family, friends, and leaders, until you get the "right" answer.

See, you make up your mind about the truth of things before acquiring any outside #evidence. I was a full-time missionary in Mexico for two years; I am aware that of course evidence does get used, but not the way a scientist or other evidence-informed person would use it. We used scriptures, #logic, personal stories, empirical data, etc. as merely one of many possible tools to bring another soul to Christ. LDS doctrine is clear on this (where its notably unclear on a huge range of other things): belief/#faith/testimony does not come from empirical evidence. It comes from the Holy Spirit, and only if you ask just right.

Empirical evidence, clear reasoning, etc. are nice but they're just a garnish; they're only condiments. The main meal is promptings (i.e., feelings) from the Holy Spirit. That is where true knowledge comes from. All other #knowledge is inferior and subordinate. All of it. If the Holy Spirit tells you the moon is cheese, then by golly you now have a cheesemoon. More disturbingly, if the Holy Ghost tells you to kill your neighbors, you should presumably do that. This kind of "prepare for the worst" thinking is a lot more common in conservative Christian groups than I think some people realize.

Anyway, you get these promptings. They're probably not because you're a sleep-deprived, angsty, sincere teenager who has been bathed and baked in this culture your entire life and has no concept of any outcome other than this. You get the promptings. Now you know. You know that Jesus is your Savior, that Joseph Smith was his prophet, that the LDS Church is the only true and living church on the face of the etc. etc.

You don't believe; you know.

So the next step is... nothing specific, really. You're done learning. That step is over. As we were reminded repeatedly as young missionaries: your job is to teach others, not to be taught by them. You go through the rest of your life with this knowledge, and you share it whenever you can. Of course, some events and facts and speech might make you doubt your hard-won knowledge. What to do?

You put the knowledge first and make the #facts fit it. You arrange the facts you see or read or whatever so that they fit this knowledge you acquired on your knees late at night with tears in your eyes, or in Sacrament Meeting the morning after a drama-filled youth conference. If you can't make the facts fit your knowledge, you reject the facts.

You seriously reject facts, and pretty casually. You might decide they aren't facts, or you might get really interested in the origin of anidea so you can discredit it, etc. Some people reject the theory of evolution. Others reject a history in in which many of the founding fathers of the USA were #atheist, #agnostic, or Not Very Good People. You can reject anything, really. You can reject the evidence of your eyes and ears, as the Party demands. It's kind of easy, in fact.

Millions of people think like this: they explicitly reject information that does not fit the narrative they have acquired through a process that depended 100% on subjective experiences (and, afterward, is heavily dominated by "authority figures" and trusted friends who tell you what to believe this week).

As a psychologist, even though #DecisionScience is not my area of research, I can tell you various ways in which one's #subjective experience can be manipulated, especially with the support of a life-saturating religious worldview and community. Relegating facts to a supporting role (at best) means giving all kinds of biases free rein in influencing your views. Facts were one of the things that might have minimized that process. In fact, I think facts as correctives for human biases was a main motivation underlying the development of the #ScientificMethod.

This becomes how you live your life: find out what's true, then rearrange your worldview, your attitudes, your specific beliefs, your behavior, and potentially even how you evaluate evidence to fit that knowledge. You aren't faking it, you aren't pretending; you simply believe something different. You see the world differently. I'm guessing you'd pass a lie detector test.

Note that nowhere in this process is there ever what a #philosopher, a #scientist, or a mathematician would call an "honest, open inquiry." That would imply uncertainty about the outcome of the inquiry. It would imply a willingness to accept unexpected answers if the evidence or reasoning led there. That's not possible because there can be only one answer: what you already know. Evidence cannot be allowed to threaten knowledge.

Coincidentally, now you're a perfect member of the Trump/Musk/whoever personality cult. All you need are some trusted sources (e.g. friends, neighbors, celebrities, local church leaders) to tell you that #Trump is a Good #Christian, that #AOC is secretly a communist, that #Obama was born in Africa, that Killary is literally eating babies, that a pizza parlor has a torture basement, that Zelensky is a villain and Putin a hero, etc. Literally anything. You haven't just learned how to do this; it is how your brain works, now. This is how "reasoning" happens. This is how belief and worldview and personal commitment are formed and shifted.

Now you casually accept new concepts like "crisis actors", "alternative facts", the "deep state", and "feelings-based reality." You have no problem doing this. Conspiracy theories are a cakewalk; you could fully believe six impenetrable Qanon ravings before breakfast.

I've seen progressives casually assume that Evangelical-type Christians are hypocrites, or lying, or "virtue signaling" as they state their support for whatever value-violating thing Trump or Musk or any national GOP figure has said or done (e.g., "Hey, I now believe that god doesn't love disabled people, after all!"). I've accused conservatives of those things things myself, though I don't actually believe that's what is happening. What we're seeing is not just hypocrisy or dishonesty. What's happening, at least with many religious people, is that a trusted leader has told them they should believe a different thing, so now they do. It's that simple. Many might even die for their new belief in the right circumstances (certain Christians are a little bit obsessed with the possibility of dying for their faith, so this isn't as high a bar as you might think).

Sure, some people who flipflop overnight probably are lying or putting on an act even they don't truly believe. However, many more are simply being who they are, or who they've become by existing in this ideological/cultural system for years.

Obviously, I believe this kind of reasoning is not good and makes the world a better place. I would like to reduce it or even eliminate it. It is embedded, though, with other dynamics: ingroup/outgroup tribalism, authoritarianism (boy howdy do conservative churches train you to be an authoritarian), prejudices of various kinds, and basic cognitive biases (which run rampant in such environments).

It's also bound up with religious #AntiIntellectualism. In the LDS church, for instance, there's a scripture that gets tossed around at election time saying that being educated is good, but only up to a point (any education that leads a person to question God's words, etc. is by definition too much" learning). As a person with a graduate degree, my last decade or so in the LDS church was marked by a more or less constant social tension from the possibility that I might "know too much".

Education reliably reduces this problematic kind of thinking/believing system in many people. Specifically, "liberal arts" education (which isn't about liberalism or necessarily arts) is the special sauce; the classes many students will be forced to take for "general education" at most US universities are pretty good at teaching students different ways of thinking and helping them try on alternative worldviews. Many of the people learning multiple worldviews and getting some tools for reasoning and evidence, etc. tend to use them for the rest of their lives. Even truly exploring one or two wrong alternative worldviews or thinking patterns tends to yield big rewards over time. Notably, the GOP's attacks on higher ed have become much worse, recently.

Anyway, this is (IMO) what progressives are up against in the USA. It is not just that some people believe different things; it's that many of those people have entirely different cognitive/emotional/social structures and processes for how belief happens and what it means.

Undoing this will take generations. In the meantime, I encourage pushing back on conservative flip-flops. No matter what, not even Evangelical congressmen want to look inconsistent. Even the evangelicalest of Christians will sometimes engage with facts and reasoning to some degree, and pressure simply works, sometimes. Keep your expectations for personal change low, however.

xkcdHyphen
Replied in thread

@astronomerritt

I find the same with many fans of what is often called ‘hard science fiction.’

Those with a little knowledge are quite pretentiously committed to it and sneer at literature, film and television that explores a wider canvas of possibility and their audiences. Those with advanced science degrees are often impatient with the implausible logical contortions that authors of recent ‘hard SF’ make just to keep the science speculation to a minimum.

While the concept seems intended to describe science fiction, imaginative stories that extrapolate from established science fact and theory, what it usually means to its proponents is that the fiction has to be limited to what a person with a mid 20th century bachelor’s degree in physics would know.

Setting aside the weirdness of holding physics theory constant while allowing fictional biology, chemistry, math and engineering to advance around 20th century physics, such fiction usually lacks the curiosity and ‘What if?’ elements that drive scientists.

"A regulation that works might well produce no visible sign that it's working. If your water purification system works, everything is fine. It's only when you get rid of the sanitation system that you discover why it was there in the first place, a realization that might well arrive as you expire in a slick of watery stool with a rectum so prolapsed the survivors can use it as a handle when they drag your corpse to the mass burial pits.

When Musk and Ramaswamy decry the influence of "unelected bureaucrats" on your life as "undemocratic," they sound reasonable. If unelected bureaucrats were permitted to set policy without democratic instruction or oversight, that would be autocracy.

Indeed, it would resemble life on the Tesla factory floor: that most autocratic of institutions, where you are at the mercy of the unelected and unqualified CEO of Tesla, who holds the purely ceremonial title of "Chief Engineer" and who paid the company's true founders to falsely describe him as its founder.

But that's not how it works! At its best, expert regulations turns political choices in to policy that reflects the will of democratically accountable, elected representatives. Sometimes this fails, and when it does, the answer is to fix the system – not abolish it."

pluralistic.net/2024/11/21/pol

pluralistic.netPluralistic: Expert agencies and elected legislatures (21 Nov 2024) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

#SabineHossenfelder massacres, literally, String Theory (ST) and the theory of Loop Quantum Gravity (LQG) by saying, and I must say with good reason, that in almost 50 years of ‘activity’ (the LGQ a little less) they have failed to produce a single experimental result. Shouldn't they stop producing papers on this stuff? More importantly, do we really need a Theory of Everything?

#StringTheory #LoopQuantumGravity #LQG #physics #QuantumPhysic #ScientificMethod #TOE

youtube.com/watch?v=cBIvSGLkwJ

Continued thread
www.heart.orgBeyond breathing: How COVID-19 affects your heart, brain and other organsThe "head-to-toe" effects of COVID-19 infection mean you still need to be cautious, experts say.

The piranha problem: Large effects swimming in a small pond.
Christopher Tosh, Philip Greengard, Ben Goodrich, Andrew Gelman, @avehtari, @djhsu
2 Apr 2024
arxiv.org/abs/2105.13445

In a lot of social science research, small, random factors are reported as having large effects on social and political attitudes and behavior (social priming, hormonal levels,parental socioeconomic status, weather, ...). Studies have claimed to find large effects from these and other inputs.

The results show that it would be extremely unlikely to have all these large effects coexisting—they would have to almost exactly cancel each other out.

arXiv.orgThe piranha problem: Large effects swimming in a small pondIn some scientific fields, it is common to have certain variables of interest that are of particular importance and for which there are many studies indicating a relationship with different explanatory variables. In such cases, particularly those where no relationships are known among the explanatory variables, it is worth asking under what conditions it is possible for all such claimed effects to exist simultaneously. This paper addresses this question by reviewing some theorems from multivariate analysis showing that, unless the explanatory variables also have sizable dependencies with each other, it is impossible to have many such large effects. We discuss implications for the replication crisis in social science.

Hey, I would really encourage that all of you go out of your way to learn how the scientific method works, because too many people don't know how it works and get frustrated when they get told how it works.

Full immunity to any diseases isn't a thing, the science never said that global cooling was a thing, and all scientists never agree on every single thing.

Wikipedia, while not fully accurate all the time and should not be treated as gospel, is a good place to start to learn the basics and what else you need to learn about: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientif

en.wikipedia.orgScientific method - Wikipedia

I came across this interesting paper by Megan Stevenson which I am still reading. Even after a few pages it has really piqued my interest since I have definitely harbored what she calls an "engineer's view" that we can do sociological randomized control trials with people to test public policy.

I have a feeling this is going to trigger a lot of introspection on my thoughts about this until now...

bu.edu/bulawreview/files/2023/

So excited to be speaking at the University of New England’s “Guilty Pleasures: Examining #Crime in #PopCulture” online #conference next week! @theEllamo and I are giving a short talk on the parallels between the #scientificmethod and #crimefiction, and the genre’s #scicomm potential 👩‍🔬🕵️‍♀️ The talk builds on research from our @sci_burst#Mysteries & #Puzzles#podcast episode 🌀🧩

We are speaking May 2nd @ 3:30pm-3:45pm AEST. And the event is #online and #free, email popCRN@anu.edu.au to register 📧

Earth and Environmental Science – week 8

It is week 8 in the UNSW Earth and Environmental Science course, and the class is working towards writing a lab report on Sydney soil lead pollution. Last week, students used a portable x-ray fluorescence analyser to test soil samples that they had collected from their homes or across UNSW campus. This week the focus of the class was hypothesis testing.

#academia #teaching #education #pollution #soils #environmentalscience #earthscience #science #scientificmethod #Sydney #UNSW #GEOS1211

andy-baker.org/2024/04/04/eart

Andy Baker · Earth and Environmental Sciences – week 8It is week 8 in the UNSW Earth and Environmental Science course, and the class is working towards writing a lab report on Sydney soil lead pollution. Last week, students used a portable x-ray fluor…

In “The Demon-Haunted World” by Carl Sagan, the “Dragon in My Garage” allegory illustrates the importance of skepticism and empirical evidence. Sagan presents a scenario where someone claims to have a dragon in their garage but provides excuses to avoid any examination. This story emphasizes the necessity of critical thinking, the burden of proof, and the dangers of accepting claims without evidence.

The Dragon in My Garage

Replied in thread

In the Way of Inquiry • Reconciling Accounts
inquiryintoinquiry.com/2023/01

The Reader may share with the Author a feeling of discontent at this point, attempting to reconcile the formal intentions of this inquiry with the cardinal contentions of experience. Let me try to express the difficulty in the form of a question:

What is the bond between form and content in experience, between the abstract formal categories and the concrete material contents residing in experience?

Once toward the end of my undergrad years a professor asked me how I'd personally define mathematics and I told him I saw it as “the form of experience and the experience of form”. This is not the place to argue for the virtues of that formulation but it does afford me one of the handles I have on the bond between form and content in experience.

I have no more than a tentative way of approaching the question. I take there to be a primitive category of “form‑in‑experience” — I don’t have a handy name for it yet but it looks to have a flexible nature which from the standpoint of a given agent easily passes from the “structure of experience” to the “experience of structure”.

Overview
oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_S

Obstacles
oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_S

#Peirce #Inquiry #InquiryIntoInquiry #InquiryDrivenSystems
#Semiotics #SignRelations #Semiositis #ObstaclesToInquiry
#Logic #Abduction #Deduction #Induction #ScientificMethod
#Experience #Expectation #EffectiveDescription #FiniteMeans
#Abstraction #Analogy #Form #Matter #Empiricism #Rationalism
#Concretion #Information #Comprehension #Extension #Intension

Inquiry Into Inquiry · In the Way of Inquiry • Reconciling AccountsThe Reader may share with the Author a feeling of discontent at this point, attempting to reconcile the formal intentions of this inquiry with the cardinal contentions of experience.  Let me t…
Replied in thread

In the Way of Inquiry • Material Exigency 2
inquiryintoinquiry.com/2023/01

A turn of events so persistent must have a cause, a force of reason to explain the dynamics of its recurring moment in the history of ideas. The nub of it's not born on the sleeve of its first and last stages, where the initial explosion and the final collapse march along their stubborn course in lockstep fashion, but is embodied more naturally in the middle of the above narrative.

Experience exposes and explodes expectations. How can experiences impact expectations unless the two types of entities are both reflected in one medium, for instance and perhaps without loss of generality, in the form of representation constituting the domain of signs?

However complex its world may be, internal or external to itself or on the boundaries of its being, a finite creature's description of it rests in a finite number of finite terms or a finite sketch of finite lines. Finite terms and lines are signs. What they indicate need not be finite but what they are, must be.

Fragments —

The common sensorium.

The common sense and the senses of “common”.

This is the point where the empirical and the rational meet.

I describe as “empirical” any method which exposes theoretical descriptions of an object to further experience with that object.

Overview
oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_S

Obstacles
oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_S

#Peirce #Inquiry #InquiryIntoInquiry #InquiryDrivenSystems
#Semiotics #SignRelations #Semiositis #ObstaclesToInquiry
#Logic #Abduction #Deduction #Induction #ScientificMethod
#Experience #Expectation #EffectiveDescription #FiniteMeans
#Abstraction #Analogy #Form #Matter #Empiricism #Rationalism

Inquiry Into Inquiry · In the Way of Inquiry • Material ExigencyOur survey of obstacles to inquiry has dealt at length with blocks arising from its formal aspects.  On the other hand, I have cast this project as an empirical inquiry, proposing to represent…